The combination of Julie Bindel and Jacqui Smith is enough to make your head spin…. and the sloppy and uncritical approach in the interview is so blatant that it barely passes as journalism.

But we are publishing this recent ‘interview’ to highlight the lack of evidence and also the disturbingly biased understanding of the sex industry that the government is currently operating on with respect to the current legislation.

original article was published in the Guardian.

On 19 November 2008 Julie Bindel [JB] spoke to home secretary Jacqui Smith [JS]about her proposed new legislation to control prostitution.

JB: What is the new law regarding prostitution?

JS: It is an offence to pay for sex with someone controlled for gain.

JB: What does “controlled for gain” mean? Does this just refer to prostitutes who are controlled by pimps?

JS: It could be anyone who controls that person for gain, such as a drug dealer or others making money from [another person’s work as a prostitute]. The impact will be on men for the first time, who will be made responsible for their actions. To those who say this is unfair, I say that there are some men whose actions are prolonging the suffering and abuse of women, and that is not fair.

JB: What evidence is this legislation based on?

JS: Evidence from the work we have been doing to tackle trafficking, such as Operation Pentameter, in which police uncovered situations where women had been trafficked into prostitution. There was not enough evidence to charge those men who paid for sex with [trafficked women] with rape, and let me be completely clear – if there was, then I think people should be charged with rape.

[xtalk ed note]
In 2006, Operation Pentameter carried out 515 raids on indoor prostitution establishments in the UK and Ireland over four months. It resulted in the ‘rescue’ of 84 women and girls who were supposedly trafficked. During Pentameter 2 in 2007, 822 premises were raided and 167 trafficking victims identified. These figures certainly do not match the (repeated like a mantra) government figures of tens of thousands of women in the sex industry in the UK being trafficked – check out http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7819984.stm

JB: What do you say to the suggestion that many “trafficked” women are actually just economic migrants?

JS: I do not buy that argument.

JB: Some commentators have suggested that this new law won’t lead to many prosecutions – do you think that this is correct?

JS: It is likely we will get more prosecutions than when we were solely reliant on rape as an offence [in cases where men bought sex with trafficked women]. Of course, I understand that this is the start of the process. But we need to send out a message to men to think twice.

JB: Why haven’t you criminalised the buying of sex in all circumstances?

JS: We asked the public what they felt about us completely outlawing paying for sex, and the majority were not in favour of us going so far.

JB: Do you know anyone personally who has used a prostitute?

JS: [Hesitates] No.

JB: Have you spoken to prostituted women yourself?

JS: Vernon [Coaker, minister for policing, crime and security] did. We have met with those organisations who directly support trafficked women, and other women in prostitution.

[xtalk ed note]
So what she is saying is that she has never actually spoken to a prostitute herself? But unsurprisingly feels more comfortable speaking to groups who ‘help’ prostitutes. Pretty amazing stuff really when you think about it.

JB: How do you respond to the suggestion that you’re using the law to infantilise women?

JS: I am willing to accept that there are women out there who say they have chosen to sell sex. But they are in the minority, and laws are there to protect the majority. In this case, the majority of women in prostitution want to get out, and suffer violence and exploitation. If there are women who have made a free choice, there are more who have had no choice.

JB: Are you a feminist?

JS: Yes. I am sure some people will say I am a killjoy for taking away the right of those men who wish to pay for sex, but I do not think it is inevitable for men to pay for sex.